MARK DREYFUS
SHADOW ATTORNEY-GENERAL
SHADOW MINISTER FOR CONSTITUTIONAL REFORM
MEMBER FOR ISAACS
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
RADIO INTERVIEW
ABC RADIO NATIONAL BREAKFAST
WEDNESDAY, 10 MARCH 2021
SUBJECT: Complaints against Christian Porter.
FRAN KELLY: That's the Prime Minister standing by the Attorney-General, Christian Porter, who strenuously denies the rape allegation and who will be missing from the upcoming fortnight of Parliament while he remains on mental health leave. Mark Dreyfus is the Shadow Attorney-General. Mark Dreyfus, welcome to Breakfast.
MARK DREYFUS, SHADOW ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Good morning, Fran, thanks for having me.
KELLY: The Prime Minister is digging in, but should the Prime Minister take up the suggestion from the former Solicitor-General and get advice from the current Solicitor-General, the second lawmaker of the Commonwealth, on the legal basis for an independent inquiry, whether there is any legal basis to proceed?
DREYFUS: Fran, the Prime Minister should stop making excuses. He should start taking this seriously and he should show some leadership. It's incredibly disturbing that more than a week after receiving it Mr Morrison still hasn't even bothered to read the detailed statement that was sent to him by the complainants' friends. That's not good enough. And of course he should seek the advice of the Solicitor-General. The suggestion made yesterday by the former Solicitor-General Justin Gleeson that that should happen is a very good one. The Solicitor-General can give advice to the Prime Minister on what form an inquiry into fitness for office could take. And it also would be able to deal with the absurd suggestions that Mr Morrison's made that somehow this is against the rule of law.
KELLY: If the advice from the Solicitor-General came back that there were no grounds for a further inquiry would Labor accept that and draw a line under this matter?
DREYFUS: That's hypothetical.
KELLY: If we're asking the Solicitor-General to look at it there's two ways the Solicitor-General can advise, which is there should be further inquiry or there shouldn't. If the Solicitor-General says there shouldn't be a further inquiry will Labor accept that?
DREYFUS: I'm needing there to be an investigation. From all of the commentary, all of the discussion in the media of this matter - which is not the right way for this to be dealt with, it's not the right way to establish confidence in the office of the Attorney-General or restore trust in government - for all of the media commentary it's apparent that these are very serious allegations. Justin Gleeson, the former Solicitor-General, has offered a way forward for the Prime Minister. He can go off and seek advice from the current Solicitor-General. I'm very confident the current Solicitor-General will explain to the Prime Minister that his own excuses about the rule of law are absurd. An independent inquiry is no threat to the rule of law and that's what the Solicitor-General will tell him.
KELLY: There are many very experienced lawyers and barristers and legal minds in this country, calling for an inquiry but there's also very many who say there shouldn't be one, who agree with the Prime Minister that we have our processes and it's a dangerous precedent to set, agreeing with the Prime Minister essentially when he warns against extrajudicial processes that suggest one Australian is subject to different legal process to any other and they warn it could turn into some kind of kangaroo court. Have you spoken to those legal people too?
DREYFUS: I've spoken to very, very many lawyers about this. Not one of them thinks that the calling of an independent inquiry is a threat to the rule of law. We've got a very good example having been provided to us last year when the Chief Justice of the High Court of Australia called an independent inquiry into the conduct of Justice Heydon when he sat on the High Court. And in fact, Mr Porter was so impressed, Mr Porter himself was so impressed with that inquiry that he called his own inquiry into Justice Heydon's conduct while he was a Royal Commissioner.
KELLY: Yes, but the circumstances here are different. The complainant, sadly, is not alive so the complainant cannot be tested. The accusations are historical and there are some lawyers - we heard them on the Law Report here on Radio National in the last 24 hours - saying that they think it is a concerning precedent and that it has no hope really of drawing a line under the matter because it can't find guilt or innocence. So what can it conclude?
DREYFUS: We're talking about two different things. We're talking about whether or not charges should be laid. That was the purpose of the police inquiry, which by the way, picking up the phrase that the Prime Minister was ridiculously using yesterday about extrajudicial inquiries, the police inquiry is an extrajudicial inquiry. It determines whether or not charges should be laid. There are very many examples of other inquiries, including inquiries that inquire into old historical allegations. But the inquiry that the Prime Minister should be setting up is one which inquires into fitness for office. It's a very, very different process than the tasks that the police started to undertake, and then abandoned. That the police didn't complete their inquiry in case anyone was in doubt about that. The police closed their file because, tragically, the complainant died. And we haven't had an inquiry. That's the problem here. That's why there will be continuing calls for an investigation to take place. I found it actually very surprising that Mr Porter and Mr Morrison haven't taken up the opportunity of having an independent investigation because that potentially not only offers the opportunity of restoring trust in the office of the Attorney-General, it offers to Mr Porter and Mr Morrison a chance to clear Mr Porter's name.
KELLY: It's been suggested that the pursuit of the Attorney-General is a form of "corrective justice" for all the women who have been the victims of sexual assault or of sexual harassment over the years. The Prime Minister's labelled that mob rule but it is the times we're in at the moment and in the end it's the Prime Minister, ultimately, who decides whether this person is a fit and proper person to serve as AG isn't it? It's the Prime Minister's remit? The pressure is on the Prime Minister?
DREYFUS: It is Fran. And I say again, the Prime Minister has got to stop making excuses. He's got to start taking this seriously. He's got to show leadership in this very difficult area. He's doing the reverse. He's running away from resolving this problem. He's running away from seizing what could be what the Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins has described as an important national moment. We've got a Prime Minister that's running away from dealing with the question of sexual harassment and sexual assault. And I think Australians are crying out for leadership in this area, are crying out for a better way to deal with questions of sexual assault and sexual harassment. The Prime Minister doesn't want to do anything about it.
KELLY: Mark Dreyfus thank you very much for joining us again on Breakfast.
DREYFUS: Thanks very much Fran.
ENDS
